When I was thinking about what theme made me want to know more, I couldn't quite put my finger on one thing instantly. As I thought about it more I guess something that always makes me want to know more, is technique. Maybe this is because of my constant need to be growing professionally, I get extremely bored easily and really thrive on things that I cannot do when I first start, but over time I eventually achieve. One of the main ways to better myself as a dancer is technique. I love to watch really technical dancer's, like: Rambert Dance Company
and the dancers featured on Celine Dion's Vegas Show, A New Day
I've noticed since working frequently with American trained dancers that they are taught very differently to the way we are in England. They are more disciplined in there training from what I have gathered through talking to professional's I have worked with. In my experience from dancers I know in England I feel we tend to focus on one subject and everyone is trained highly in that one field, either classical, or street dancing and hip hop, or jazz, not many really excel in both. Whereas what I've seen in America it seems that even the commercial dancer's have an exceptional classical technique.
I have always classed myself as a jazz dancer, as Im not classically trained and did not particually have very good technique when I started at my college and that's what I most enjoyed. However I had one teacher that always used to stress the importance of good classical technique even for jazz and musical theatre (he also taught in America alot). This really stuck with me and I continually pushed myself in Ballet to try make myself the best jazz dancer I could be. Eventually by the end of my last year I was even doing my 2 hour ballet class a day on pointe. Which may not sound much to some people, but to say I had very little classical training before I went to college it was a great achievement to me. When I then got my first job with Royal Caribbean I had a couple of professional ballet dancers in my cast which then again inspired me more. Most of the ballet dancer I knew from college disliked jazz or could not always find the ways to move there bodies as naturally in jazz as they did in ballet, but the American's in my cast were as good at jazz as they were at ballet.
I spoke to a few people in my previous casts about this and one of my Dance Captain's explained that in there jazz classes there turning routines consisted of both jazz turns and classical turns, and they would spent a whole two hour class just on turning routines, there jump combinations were also the same. Everything is done with the intension of being able to do both styles and in order to succeed as a dancer in any style you need a solid basis in Ballet. If I think back to my college classes and one of my teacher's just doing turns for a whole two hour class, it almost sounds ridiculous... I don't know how they would justify that, but apparently this is something that does happen at some studio's in America, and when I saw my dance captain do six piroutte's when she was just “messing around” in the gym I understood just how much discipline they do have. I do not know many dancer's that can do six piroutte's unless they are classically trained... So this is something that I have realised over my time working as a profession as something that always makes me think, and always makes me want to better myself professionally.
Is there a difference between teaching styles in England and America? Do we not push ourselves as hard in England to be technically strong in all fields of dance? Cuban ballet company's training and Chinese gymnast's, that we class as very intense training, Is that how we should actually be training in England? Should English dancers be training harder?
From this I see that this is something that I am interested in looking at. What the differences are between the two training styles in America and England, is it the teaching or is it the students only wanting to focus on one style? How does it effect us in the professional world when we are looking for work? I like to think about how we were trained and how we work as a profession, and the difference's. The new things we have learnt that we have only become aware of because of working with other professionals from different backgrounds.
Really interesting blogs that go from theoretical reflection to reflection about what your do - I am cruising swiftly at the minute but intend to sweep by this way again to have another look at this series of reflections.
ReplyDeleteReally interesting line of inquiry. I too have worked with people from both the UK and America and there is defiantly a difference in the type of training we receive. We do tend to stick in one style box over here, not just in dance but with acting and singing too perhaps? I saw ‘A Chorus Line’ on Broadway and EVERYONE in the cast could dance sing and act to an exceptionally high standard!! You couldn’t fault them.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to dance as well as our training being different in the UK I think our attitude to things can be slightly different here too. At college we had two girls from Zimbabwe and i remember a teacher saying that they had a great attitude as they were up for anything and weren’t afraid to make a show of themselves. I don’t want to be stereotypical but I think sometimes we can be a bit reserved as we don’t want to look stupid doing something or end up falling over!
The Americans tend to be good at ‘tricks’ too, which was something we never practised at college. It would be good to have one amazing thing that you can do and pull out at auditions in order to stand out. I watched some of the American series of ‘So you think you can dance’, and it really highlighted how versatile their dancers were. Didn’t see the UK series so can’t comment on that I’m afraid.
Thanks Cerys!
ReplyDeleteI do find it really interesting, and I agree totally with what you said. All the people on Broadway are exceptional at ALL things, singing, dancing and acting!
I think also it could be our attitude, that why I was wouldn't is it the teaching or is it the students? I mean maybe Im looking at it all wrong thinking it's the training thats different when it could in fact just be our attitude's as students?
American's definitely do have there tricks too! I was once asked to do some gymnastics, and I couldn't do half the things they were asking but the a few of the American's in my cast just did then right there and then!! I was amazed, that they can do yet another thing at such a high standard!!!
We definitely have to “up our game” to compete at there standard!
There was an American girl in my class at school. I always thought of her as a 'good dancer' not just a 'good ballet dancer', being versatile in ballet,contemporary and jazz.
ReplyDeleteShe seemed to have experienced those different dance styles from a younger age, always up for a challenge, excelling in picking up the 'essence' of a new genre such as flamenco or african. For me who even found it difficult to get the low weight placement and parallel legs in jazz, it was a wonder how she picked up any movement.
This may be her personal quality as a dancer, but might be her american training.
I thought that the difference in the versatility of dancers may be something to do with national character. For example, I find japanese dance industry extremely conservative; although there are many private ballet schools, they specialise in ballet (with some contemporary depending on the school). I have never experienced dance styles other than ballet until I came to the UK.
Nowadays, most ballet companies have at least 50% of contemporary works in their repertoire, and therrefore requires the dancers to be versatile, and being strong in many styles is a strength if not a necessity.
Hi Melissa, I found your line of inquiry really interesting. I have never worked with American dancers so it was something I have never considered beofre. It was really interesting to read about the differences you have noticed. Their versatilty for all styles must be why they are known for being so strong. However, sometimes it could be a positive thing to excel in one genre as sometimes there are negative connotations with not having a specialist subject- jack of all trades, master of none.
ReplyDeleteA really interesting post and definately something that has great potential to be explored.
another aspect of this is 'how important is your formative training in terms of your current practice?'
ReplyDeleteIn my creative practice of sound art, I was trained in Australia. The technical aspect (equipment, broadcasting, voice, recording) are all the same, except the UK has bigger electrical plugs! However, the environment in which I operate is totally different. The UK has a much smaller community broadcasting sector, that aims at a completely segment of the market. So, sometimes differences occur from the places in which we practice, the context in which our practice occurs or perhaps even the people we are surrounded by.
A very interesting debate!
Mina,
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you have worked with an American too and have a similar view to me. I too thought that maybe it was just a personal quality of a particular dancer, but then as I worked with more American trained dancer's I realised that it can't be very one that has that personal quality! So many of them are trained so highly in each discipline and very few in just one.
I agree that many companies are now really wanting versatile dancers, with many ballet companies doing so much contemporary and also Jazz companies wanting a very strong ballet technique and presence. It makes me wonder is this something that has become a must from the standard of American dancers?
Natalie,
I do also agree with you aswel! Is it better to be exceptional at one style rather than a good "all rounder"... this is something I am still discovering. When I look at the dancer's I know and have worked with i do realise that they excel in ALL areas, and I wonder how I fit into that... How do other dancer's view me? Do they see me as strong at one particular style, and is so, what? Or do they see me as an all rounder, and to what standard? I think it's something I will ask my close dancer friends that have worked with me a few times... see if they can give me an insight into how other people see my dancing.
Peter,
I do often wonder how important our training is to our practice. Is it the actually training that's important or what we take from it?
One of he most talented dancers I've worked with did not even step into a dancer studio until he was 15!! And only trained with local people around his neighbourhood.
I feel that as long as we have a good solid basic to grow from we are fine as long as we push ourselves and are constantly working towards making ourselves better.
I guess like you, you had the training and being able to adapt to a different enviroment and different working style's is what makes us employable.
You guys have gave me some great comments and I just want to say thanks for helping me develop and think more in depth about this line of inquiry!
Melissa- have you had a bit of a google about some of your questions to see if anyone else has looked into the topic - have you tried the MDX library?
ReplyDeleteHi Melissa,
ReplyDeleteI have been reading through your blog and found it really interesting. Not being a dancer I don’t really understand all the different ways that you can train, but I have noticed all areas of American education they are much less concerned about specialising in just one subject. In this country we start narrowing down our subject from GCSE to the point where we are only studying one thing at University. From my understanding even at university in the states you can take classes in whatever subject you want as long as you can explain how it will be relevant to your course. I guess there are pros and cons to both approaches but in my opinion I think it is a better way to approach learning as every subject feeds into one another.
Hi Melissa, it is an interesting debate and whilst I have not yet had the pleasure to work with American trained dancers I have certainly had the privelege to watch some. Three of my all time favourite companies are the New York City Ballet, Alvin Ailey Dance Company and my personal favourite American Ballet Theatre and their dancers are truly phenominal.
ReplyDeleteI'm no expert on the subject, but I think a lot of it is not down to the actual teaching methods as such it is the educational system that is in place and the support and funding and facilities that are given and are available to the arts. I think this also spills over to our sports people too - why can we not produce a wimbledon champion?,why do we not win the world cup? etc , etc. You only have to look closely at our ballet companies and the majority of dancers are foreign. I think the last time I went to watch Royal Ballet there was one English dancer in the company!!! I don't mean that to be a racist remark in any way but if I liken it to premiership football, how can we produce a world class centre forward for our National team if all the centre forwards for the top teams are foreign and we have no English centre forward playing regularly in the premiership? American Ballet Theatre are predominantly american, homegrown dancers mostly brought through their own accademy system! The basic reason here of course is always money! If you have a brilliant, talented kid in America they'll be encouraged and funded with scholarships and placements.In America they celebrate talent and reward success. Also many sports and the arts are covered within mainstream schools and colleges whereas here they are not. They have specialist accademies where you can train in your particular specialism whilst doing your accademic studies alongside without moving off campus or having to pay extra fees.
When I was 11 I had to choose between my sports and my dancing because none of it was done in school so I had to do it extra curricular after school - in the evenings/weekends and then there's the cost of the training and classes and the travelling and classes clash with each other so you can't for example do all the dance training you need and also be a part of the gymnastic troup, it's a conflict of interest.
I did basic gymnastics training and acro dance and can do several "tricks" but when I went to Bird College ( which is one of the countries top vocational dance colleges)they didn't have the facilities to continue that training, eg: you can only learn back flips etc with specialist crash mats and equipment. Some tutors wanted the college to invest in that type of training as it is more and more called for in the business as audiences expect to see a more thrilling and exciting style of entertainment, but in my particular year, out of 50 students there were only 3 of us girls had any acro skills and maybe 2 or 3 boys, so it wasn't worth the investment.I had to go to a gymnastics club in Bromley on a Friday evening to continue my gymnastics training which was very expensive, a yearly membership fee and a weekly class fee + the bus fares and hour long journey and I got home at midnight having been at college since 8-30am. Most of my peers at college just couldn't afford to go, most were degree students on student loans and had to work restaurants and bars in the evenings to make ends meet. I just think America is able through it's educational system to offer much more accessible opportunities I don't think it's that their dancers are any better than us!
Hi Melissa,
ReplyDeleteInteresting debate ! I have not yet had the pleasure of working with American trained dancers but I have had the privilege to watch some, American Ballet Theatre, New York City Ballet and Alvin Ailey Dance Company are 3 of my favourites and their dancers are phenominal!!
I am no expert on the subject but it appears to me that it is not our dance teaching methods that are flawed or that our dancers do not have the facility or ability to be just as versatile. Certainly at Bird our technical training in dance was very intense and I have had that 2 hour lesson on turning that you mentioned – our ballet master was from Royal Ballet and really hot on technique.
I think it is the educational system in place and the funding and support that is given. I think this spills over into our sports too, eg: why can’t we produce a Wimbledon champion?, why can’t we win the world cup etc, etc !!
Most of our top dance companies in England have predominantly foreign dancers. The last time I went to see The Royal Ballet there were no English dancers in the cast. American Ballet Theatre are predominantly home grown American dancers! I don’t mean this to be a racist remark at all but if I liken it to premiership football, how can we produce a centre forward for our National team if we don’t have one English centre forward playing regularly in our premier league to get the relevant experience and level of football to compete internationally? It doesn’t make sense to me and it does not happen in any other major country that produces dancers or sports people. I went to see the Moscow State Ballet and there was not one non-russian dancer in the cast! They develop and nurture their own dancers through scholarships and academies.
Americans embrace and nurture talent and reward success! Coming second is failure – just look at their athletes! The college system is such that if they spot a talented kid at sports or dance they provide specialist training through colleges and academies where they train alongside their normal academic studies and funding is provided through scholarships. I’m sure you, like me, Melissa had to do all your dance training after school in the evenings and at weekends and your parents had to pay and travel miles in all weathers for you to follow your chosen subject.
Another example is a girl from my dance school in Barnsley - she was a great diver and she left dancing to concentrate on training for the British diving team for the 2012 Olympics. She has to get up at 4am every morning to travel to Sheffield to train in the pool before it opens to the public, then she has to go to school all day and then back to training afterwards. That would not happen in America she’d be at a college with training facilities on site and it would be timetabled into her normal day.
I think this is the fundamental difference, I think with the same system in place here and the same opportunities and funding we’d be world beaters?!
Emily.
Hi Melissa,
ReplyDeleteIt is interesting that you chose this for you inquiry as I have also blogged about the difference in training in different countries. Also, Needham cropped up in thoughts too. I am sure that is who you are referring to.
I am currently living in Amsterdam and the Dutch version of Jazz is so different to our own in the UK. It is for sure what we'd call contemporary. I too have worked with American dancers and it is interesting to read what you say about them being superbly trained in all disciplines.
I have worked with a couple of 18 year old boys from the States who have not had any formal training. Yet, the local dance schools they attended offered such a high standard of teaching that they were not only employable without formal training but exceptional dancers.